MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player-recorder

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I would like to present new device for Atari XE series which can play/record MIDI files on Atari 8-bit computer. Idea was taken from https://ataribits.weebly.com/midi.html
but I decided to use CART/ECI port to communication with MIDI devices because in case I may use SIO independently for load/save data during MIDI working. In case possible it to use MIDI sequencer based on Atari with direct access to FDD and/or other mass storage device, for example with AVG CART.

Additional features: - possibility to play external MIDI source like MIDI keyboard or synthesizer, - MIDI IN/MIDI OUT LED indicators on board, - serial communication with 31250 b/s, 125 kb/s or 2mb/s with PC (using e.g. FT232 dongle), - fully transparent for other cartridges/interfaces (based on D1XX/D5XX address decoder), - equipped with S2 DREAMBLASTER is ready to play (similar like SIO2MIDI,

First issue of MIDIcar v1.0 is dedicated for Atari XE series but I’ll prepare version for XL series as soon as possible.

I hope, good player will be prepared soon 🙂

MIDIcar-1.0.1-3dview.png

Wenn ein ABBUCer daran interessiert ist, bei der Softwareentwicklung zu helfen, stellt pancio ein Board zur Verfügung. Bei Interesse kontaktiere bitte pancio oder Sleeπ.

There is https://youtu.be/oZ3318A9UHE from MIDIcar played on Atari...

https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51

Anhänge:

Sleeπ

AntwortZitat

. Hallo Leute

Haben wollen!

Tschüß

Mathy (der jetzt nicht mehr mit SIO2MIDI liebäugelt)

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Really great! Good job 😎 !

Hope, the MIDICar will bee soon available, seems to be a "Must have" thing 😉

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Thanks a lot!;

It's designed as Open Hardware so will be available after ABBUC HW Competition. Now I'm working on PBI version but I've some doubts regarding PBI pass-thru feature. Because of no possibility to have DIN-5/RCA ports on the right/left side (monitor/SIO) of PCB, I'll probably place these sockets on the back of the PCB. I'm considering use vertical PCB but I don't imagine many cables connected to this construction 🙂

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Maybe this is stupid idea but I'll write it anyway:

Why don't you split MIDIcar into two boards?

Board one is a simple "port extender". You can create two versions of a short board which plugs either into the PBI or ECI and has a matching PBI or ECI connector on the other end. In the center of the board is a pin header which is connected to the bus and contains all signals of PBI/ECI. You could perhaps add a cartdrige port as well so XE-users do not need to unplug the extender all the time (and have their carts plugged in vertically).

Board two is the MIDIcar. It has a female pin header on its side and plugs vertically into the port extender.

This also solves the problem that the Atari with current MIDIcar design plugged in will become very deep.

The port extender also opens up the possibility to plug in other devices you or somebody else designs in the future.

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

When I used my BlackBox, most of the time I didn't plug the BlackBox directly into the computer. For some reason, I moved the computer around a bit, but because the BlackBox didn't move along, that would move the connectors relative to each other. So what I did was use the MIO extender (which more or less is a cartridge and ECI to PBI adaptor, made by ICD, with an extra cartridge port) and the ribbon cable CSS (the guys that made the BlackBox) intended to connect a BlackBox to an 800XL. That way I had a flexible connection between the XE and the BlackBox. XE - MIO extender- Flat/Ribbon cable - BlackBox.

Djaybee's solution seems to be a better solution as long as the vertical board isn't too large. But if it does, you might want to consider using an extender board that enables the user to use one or two devices via flat/ribbon cable.

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Hi,

Both ideas are very interesting. Now I'm considering to use short PCB with pass-thru adapter + 50 PINs IDC socket for flexible ribbon cable and other IDC sockets on MIDIcar end (like SCSI connections). Only one doubt... how long ribbon cable may I use to avoid ghosts and noises on the signal lines?

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

pancio schrieb: ... how long ribbon cable may I use to avoid ghosts and noises on the signal lines?

I can't not tell you, but here's a picture of the MIO Extender and the flat cable that came with the BlackBox.

MIO Extender and Flatcable.jpg

Sincerely

Mathy

Anhänge:

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

That's good think!

Is this documented somewhere or should I arrange this board from the scratch? Probably I should because it's little big and without IDC but I'm asking rather about connections (it's one to one or with some additional parts/crosses on the PCB). Very cool idea.

Sincerely, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Just a few news from my desk...

Version 1.0.1 based on CART/ECI was finished (better quality, good RCA sockets).

signal-2022-07-03-115407_005.jpeg

signal-2022-07-03-115407_003.jpeg

Just for fun I stocked two MIDIcar and try to play on both in the same time 🙂

signal-2022-07-03-151845_004.jpeg

signal-2022-07-03-151845_005.jpeg

signal-2022-07-03-151845_006.jpeg

signal-2022-07-03-151845_007.jpeg

And they playing together 🙂

signal-2022-07-03-145752.mp4

Next step... finishing XL version...

Regards, Blazej/pancio

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Hi Guys,

Our friend Kkrys made prototype case for MIDIcar. Someone of Atari users might see it on Lost Party 2022 (Licheń Stary, Poland). Of course, this is only prototype... we will plan to design a few models available with other colors variants too 🙂 The third photo shown that it's possible use MIDIcar with external memory expansion (512kb in case) so you don't need to modify stock Atari to enjoy most midi files 🙂

midicar-prototype.jpeg midicar-prototype-case-socket.jpeg midicar-prototype-case-dev.jpg

Regards, pancio

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Very cool 😎 !

This is one of my favorite "must have" things in the near future 😎

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Sure 🙂

The device will be available after ABBUC competition in the public domain so anybody may do it yourself. Probably device will be on stock (maybe ABBUC Mitglieder-Shop?/PTODT?) We will see. Main goal is to promote MIDI on Atari8 because it's capable to play/receive MIDI data better than any other 8-bit (and many 16-bits) computer 🙂. Moreover, PeBe, which is the author of MCPlayer thinking on new software version which will be capable much more than now... I can't say more at this moment 🙂 Be patient!

There is still some tasks to do with PBI version of MIDIcar - it will be done soon.. we are wondering to develop new HW version with independent clock to leave POKEY timers... but at first I need to finish PBI version! 🙂

Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

pancio schrieb: ... MIDI on Atari8 because it's capable to play/receive MIDI data better than any other 8-bit (and many 16-bits) computer 🙂.

Just out of curiosity: Why?

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Hi,

Of course it's my subjective assessment but... - C64 has based on the same idea cartridge interface but without synth module and 'little' bit slower clock - it's mean that not so much MIDI data might be interpreted (Atari8 is faster) - ZX has very easy and similar interface too but as above - without synth module - ZX MIDI - very rare and very expensive - maybe it's faster but I haven't opportunity to use it. Actually I based on this when designed MIDIcar 🙂 - CPC 464/6128 - Ultimate Midi Board - very cool but most complicated. Equipped with S2 synth module. I don't know why it's so complicated - I need to investigate it to find hidden features 🙂 - Amiga? Of course has simple MIDI interface connected to serial port - without synth module. Compare Atari8 with Amiga is like David vs/ Goliath... - Only Atari ST is equipped with MIDI by default but without synth module as well... - others? Maybe, I don't know...

So... we have big potential!

I release that software is the main key and the hardware is good as his software! I hope, Atari8 can more 🙂

Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Really cool stuff 😎 ....

Please let me know, if I can support you and your buddy PeBE in any way!

You can answer me here or drop me a line.

Cheers, andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Hello Friends!

I pretty finished MIDIcarPBI version. I'm not sure the pass-thru PBI slot will work OK but we will see. If anyone has notices or comments, please let me know. I plan to send this to production this week 🙂

MIDIcarPBIv1.0-01.png

PCB dimension: 120x100mm. On the bottom we will have 50pin PBI connector (I haven't 3Dshape for it!)

what changed... - according known issue with AVGcart I decided to add better wire on power lines, - full address decoder added - possibility to power device from external power supply (Atari 800XL power modification not needed)

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Looks really, really coooool 😮 😎 !

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Nachdem auf der JHV die letzten Stimmzettel live abgegeben wurden, steht nun das Ergebniss fest:

Das MIDIcar von pancio wurde von den Club-Mitgliedern in Kategorie 2 eingestuft. Der ABBUC fördert das Projekt mit 300 €.

Damit wurde das Ergebniss von Kategorie "4", wie auf der JHV verkündet, auf "2" korrigiert!

Leider ist es am Samstag bei der Einpflege der vor Ort abgegebenen Stimmzettel zu einem Fehler gekommen, wodurch der Beitrag fälschlicher Weise in die Kategorie 4 eingestuft wurde. Bei der Nachbereitung der Ergebnisse ist der Fehler zum Glück aufgefallen.

Abgestimmt haben 43 Mitglieder, davon 27 online über das Formur der Homepage und 16 Stimmen wurden vor Ort abgegeben.

Herzlichen Glückwunsch an pancio!

Sleeπ

AntwortZitat

. Hallo Marc

Das freut mich sehr. Kategorie 4 war definitiv zu niedrig!

Tschüß

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Thank a lot for your voting and so high result - especially that this year MC was only one on competition. I'm very surprised because no one had chance to see MIDIcar in action and classify MIDIcar in proper category was very hard. I hope MC will be very common because it's very pleasure listening music from MIDIcar. I'll provide any detail on my page and here, so anyone will have opportunity make own MIDIcar him self. Of course I'll make a few pieces for some people which can't assembly PCB by hand. MIDIcar will be available on PTODT or A.B.B.U.C. shop (if possible) soon. I planned assembly about 20 pieces...

Again, many thanks to anyone which discussed with me and advised me with this project: Sleeπ, Mathy, andY, DjayBee, Hias, Kkrys, Erhard and others involved!

Mega special thanks I sending to PeBe - author of MIDI player - without him, project will be as empty shell.

I know.. it's not finish yet. I'm during production for PBI version... finally I planned to do it with PBI NewDevice, so the award will be consumed to prototyping new PCB 🙂

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

I think this is a benefit of the fact that a video showing the project and its function is to be submitted. This way, without seeing the hardware "for real", everyone can get a better impression than just based on a text and pictures.

Sleeπ

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Thank a lot for your voting and so high result - especially that this year MC was only one on competition. I'm very surprised because no one had chance to see MIDIcar in action and classify MIDIcar in proper category was very hard. I hope MC will be very common because it's very pleasure listening music from MIDIcar. I'll provide any detail on my page and here, so anyone will have opportunity make own MIDIcar him self. Of course I'll make a few pieces for some people which can't assembly PCB by hand. MIDIcar will be available on PTODT or A.B.B.U.C. shop (if possible) soon. I planned assembly about 20 pieces...

Again, many thanks to anyone which discussed with me and advised me with this project: Sleeπ, Mathy, andY, DjayBee, Hias, Kkrys, Erhard and others involved!

Mega special thanks I sending to PeBe - author of MIDI player - without him, project will be as empty shell.

I know.. it's not finish yet. I'm during production for PBI version... finally I planned to do it with PBI NewDevice, so the award will be consumed to prototyping new PCB 🙂

Best Regards, pancio

Congratulations Pancio, for the great result 😎 !

I have not yet seen MIDICar live, but the first videos of you on YT made hungry for more 😁 ! And of course I voted for you 😎 !

I hope, you´re making good progress with the project and please let me know, I would very much like to buy one of the first devices from the first series of you (even if it´ s still "beta", but I would like to test it live an can so spread out my own experiences too)...

So let me know, if it´s possible, to get a MIDICar in advance.... Simply drop me a PM, if you want 😉.

Thx and BR, andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

MIDIcar SERIAL connector first usage:

signal-2022-11-03-182224_002.jpeg signal-2022-11-03-182224_003.jpeg midi-debug-via-serial.mp4

used as debugger for MIDI data.. but the most probably feature is very high transfer (theoretically 2Mb/s) It might be good alternative for SIO2PC...

EDIT:

Atari can play with MIDI... MIDI can play with POKEY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1GdcOoE6Oo

It's conversion from pokey2midi example played on MIDIcar

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Good job, Pancio 😎!

Keep on the great work!

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Hello again!

Good news... now MIDIcar can play music directly form IDE+ or compatible interface under SpartaDosX 🙂 This is huge milestone! Now comfortable is on high level... loading time is very short (a few seconds)!

MIDIcar_and_IDE+.jpeg

I found one bug on PCB... which was responsible for unexpected behavior with IDE+... modification on the existing PCB is very easy.. just push up 5th pin of MC6850 (/RTS signal)

https://youtu.be/h5Pq4HO0sL0

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Hello,

It's time to show all data regarding MIDIcar project. Project was made as Free Hardware under Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0, so anyone can download source files or prepared by me gerbers and will make own MIDIcar and enjoy! If any question, don't be hesitate and please ask me!

Project files are attached on the bottom of the topic: https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51

Have fun!

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

Just this weekend I was thinking that we hadn't heard from you in a while.

The MIDI Thru port is very close to the video cable. Won't that cause any problems if somebody tries to use plug a cable into the MIDI Thru port?

BTW have you tried to plug one MIDIcarXL into the back of another? And a third into the second? 😁

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Hi Mathy,

Yes... sorry I know - hobby is very important but family too 🙂 The reason why XL version was made is that I don't know when I'll finish common model for both XL/XE with additional middle board as we discussed in other very good topic: https://abbuc.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1035

So, gerbers and full project files is available on my page - anyone is willing to do it by himself. I'm not sure, XL version will be made by us and available in shop. I may prepare three modules because have a free PCBs from prototyping process. If anyone is interested in - let me know privately.

According to MIDI ports positions... well it's compromise between PCB length and usability... there is no issue with connecting passthru cable but it's looking little bit strange 🙂

signal-2022-12-12-111134.jpeg

BTW have you tried to plug one MIDIcarXL into the back of another? And a third into the second? 😁

not yet... because I've only one MCpbi assembled at this moment. Will try, be sure 🙂

Regards, pancio

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Hi all,

Great to be on the Abbuc Forum (again). I really love this project, and I really would like to get an announcement when it is ready to buy. I can not build it myself, but I love this.

I also hope that one day there will be a real (simple) sequencer written for atari 8bit in Cubase style, where one could record multiple tracks after each other and play them together.

I really do not want to miss this out, it would be a great way to get me use the atari 8bit again. The atari hobby has become a little bit silent here.

Thanks! Marius

AntwortZitat

marius schrieb: Hi all,

Great to be on the Abbuc Forum (again). I really love this project, and I really would like to get an announcement when it is ready to buy. I can not build it myself, but I love this.

I also hope that one day there will be a real (simple) sequencer written for atari 8bit in Cubase style, where one could record multiple tracks after each other and play them together.

I really do not want to miss this out, it would be a great way to get me use the atari 8bit again. The atari hobby has become a little bit silent here.

Thanks! Marius

Hi Marius, welcome! Nice to meet you here (again) 😉 .

I will stay in contact with Pancio and PeBe and follow the progress of the project and also comment here, ´cause I´ m now also responsible for the hardware area here and I am also personally extremely interested in the project 😎 .

Cheers, andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Hello all,

Thanks Marius for interesting with MIDIcar.and thanks andY for your support and involvement... I'm sorry for this situation. I'm not able to make more than a few pieces because of lack of time. I will help with technical knowledge if someone decided to build his own piece or pieces for others. There is no limitation and no restriction for MIDIcar. I'm willing to spend time with new projects rather than assembly more pieces.. but I may promise, 10-15 MC will be made by my colleague Kkrys and will available on the market early January. I hope!

Little announce according MCplayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95PjqzHXih0

Just one more notice... MIDIcar PBI version is capable to play with SIDE2, IDE+ or AVGcart together! 🙂

signal-2022-12-14-133310.jpeg

Regards, pancio

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Hello all,

Thanks Marius for interesting with MIDIcar.and thanks andY for your support and involvement... I'm sorry for this situation. I'm not able to make more than a few pieces because of lack of time. I will help with technical knowledge if someone decided to build his own piece or pieces for others. There is no limitation and no restriction for MIDIcar. I'm willing to spend time with new projects rather than assembly more pieces.. but I may promise, 10-15 MC will be made by my colleague Kkrys and will available on the market early January. I hope!

Little announce according MCplayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95PjqzHXih0

Just one more notice... MIDIcar PBI version is capable to play with SIDE2, IDE+ or AVGcart together! 🙂

signal-2022-12-14-133310.jpeg

Regards, pancio

Hi Pancio, yes I understand...

Is it possible maybe, to reserve or pre-order one for me at Kkrys?

Possibly you can then also think about how you can build a production line in the future, if necessary, without you have to assemble it yourself... I think the interest for MidiCar is very big in the community 😎 !

Cheers, andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

OH I really hope this amazing device will be produced in a quite a quantity. I am a professional musician and educator and I have been a happy user of atari 8bit for ages. I always linked MIDI to my Atari ST, but I haven't owned an Atari ST for at least 14 years now.

I would really love to investigate whether I could use the Atari 8bit for some cool music projects. And when I like hardware I also would like to buy a few spares.

So if there are hardware people here who can build this amazing piece of hardware, I would be more than happy to buy a few to get sooner to a 'break even point'.

AntwortZitat

andymanone schrieb: Is it possible maybe, to reserve or pre-order one for me at Kkrys?

Possibly you can then also think about how you can build a production line in the future, if necessary, without you have to assemble it yourself... I think the interest for MidiCar is very big in the community 😎 !

Cheers, andY

Yes I am totally interested too. Perhaps the friend from Greece "Panos" could build these devices? He did a wonderful remake of the Turbo Freezer as well in the past.

AntwortZitat

marius schrieb: OH I really hope this amazing device will be produced in a quite a quantity. I am a professional musician and educator and I have been a happy user of atari 8bit for ages. I always linked MIDI to my Atari ST, but I haven't owned an Atari ST for at least 14 years now.

I would really love to investigate whether I could use the Atari 8bit for some cool music projects. And when I like hardware I also would like to buy a few spares.

So if there are hardware people here who can build this amazing piece of hardware, I would be more than happy to buy a few to get sooner to a 'break even point'.

Good to know.. so you are best candidate to be composer MIDI files on Atari 🙂

Which Atari do you have? XL or XE?

Regards,

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Good to know.. so you are best candidate to be composer MIDI files on Atari 🙂

Which Atari do you have? XL or XE?

Regards,

Oh yes. Without any trouble. So that is why I would like to see a real sequencer happening on Atari 8bit.

Since this is a PBI MIDI device, I was wondering is there a Input/Output possible at the same time? Technically I mean. Would it be possible to let the Atari send data to a Midi channel and meanwhile record another channel? I know the software might not be able doing it, but would it be possible with the hardware?

Or perhaps (if it is not possible with the MIDI ports) sending data to the Sound chip and recording Data from the MIDI IN?

I would like to have a real sequencer. Like a VERY LITE version of Cubase or something like that. Where you could record a piano track, and then record a bass track and then a drum track and then a saxophone track and so on.

If the hardware can do it, but the software can't... I might be interested in writing such a thing myself, or at least try to write it. Very interesting possibilities. That is why I would like to purchase AT LEAST 5 of those MIDI carts you are creating.

I have uncountable atari 8bit machines. I have many, XE and XL.... My favorite are my 800xl's but for me it is no problem to use XE. Love XE too 😀

AntwortZitat

Hi Marius,

At first, you should know - PBI version is brand new and still without case. In my opinion PBI version is more comfortable and stable. But general, both CART/ECI and PBI versions are pretty the same... According to features... there is no possible to use MIDIcar in duplex mode because MC6850 has only one common send/receive register. I'm thinking about using DACIA chip (R65C52) but I'm not sure it's required by more than a few people 🙂 we will see. Of course sequencer taking data from MIDI IN is possible - I did some tests in the past. I'm talking with PeBe - author of best MIDIcar player (!) I'll bring him AKAI MPK225 to near LAST ATARI Party on the begging of the January, so everything is possible 🙂

I'm really happy that someone want to use z MIDIcar for something other than only listening music. Please follow topic... additional you may catch me on private or mail - I'll try arrange you with my colleague which is capable to do a few items for you...

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Hello Pancio,

I am also very interested in MidiCAR PBI for my Atari 800XL computers. So please reserve at least one piece for me.

Greetings, CharlieChaplin

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

pancio schrieb: .... I'm not sure it's required by more than a few people 🙂

If a piece of hardware doesn't have a certain feature, that feature can not be used. Sounds obvious, I know. But it's better to have a feature that only a handful of people need, than not have a feature at all. It's a bit like 1MB memory upgrades: "We don't need 1MB upgrades because there is no software for it" and "We don't need software to support 1MB upgrades, because nobody has 1Mb upgrades". Please put the feature Marius wants, in the hardware.

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Hi Mathy,

I thought close this topic definitely when I'll designed NewDevice version but this one is still as early bird... Additionally, to be compliant with old version I thought that only CART version should be made as last.. eventually PBI version shall be redesigned for Atari 1090 because it's easy to do...

many ideas.. not so much time!

Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

CharlieChaplin schrieb: Hello Pancio,

I am also very interested in MidiCAR PBI for my Atari 800XL computers. So please reserve at least one piece for me.

Greetings, CharlieChaplin

Same here also interested in a PBI version for my 600XL.

The Cellar BBS telnet thecell.ar : 1040 Blogsite www.thecell.ar lasticppc@gmail.com

AntwortZitat

Hi Lastic,

Thanks for interesting. PBI version is still without case - I've some unplanned delay because of components lead. I'm using it without case at this moment (see black distance between PCB, surface and X2GS):

IMG_20230125_091515244_HDR.jpg IMG_20230125_091519856_HDR.jpg IMG_20230125_091609318.jpg IMG_20230125_091625114_HDR.jpg IMG_20230125_091638381.jpg

Please catch me on PM or email if you still want it :-)

Best Regards,

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

HI,

Nice to inform you that the issue on MIDIcar working with SIDEx, AVGCART and IDE+ has resolved. Now MIDIcar working fine with any cartridge and others CART/ECI interface. The bug was hidden on circuit - not expected wiring between RD4 and RD5 signals - That's the reason why some cartridges doesn't start properly. So, if someone has MIDIcar from 1.0 to 1.0.4 release, should cut one wiring on the bottom side of PCB:

MIDIcar - cart socket.png

MIDIcar wiring to cut.png

I did release 1.0.5 which is free of this issue. You may find it on my page from footer.

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

So, heute endlich mal Zeit gehabt, das super coole MidiCar-Projekt von Panciound PeBemal auszutesten 😎 !

Nach ein paar anfänglichen kleinen Startschwierigkeiten (und Missverständnissen meinerseits 😉) läufts jetzt super 😎! Hab gleich mal mit meiner Lieblingsserie getestet und dann kurz nochmal das flauschige Rüsseltier anspielen lassen.
(Kleiner Tipp: haben beide was mit Außerirdischen zu tun 😉 )

Die Video +Audio-Qualität ist leider ein bisschen lausig (mal eben nur schnell mit ´nem Chinahandy aufgenommen), (Aber ich kann euch sagen, "Live" klingts um ein Vielfaches besser (und ohne dieses dynamische "Auto Leveling" vom Camera-Mikro und die zirpsigen hohen Frequenzen 🙄))

Gtx., andY

Midicar_test.JPG

Midicar_first_try.mp4

Anhänge:

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

Hi all,

In the near future I will write a cool article about this hardware and software. I ordered the MidiCar from Pancio and today it arrived. Whilst writing this article currently a MIDI file is playing "Don't Speak - No Doubt" ... It simply plays from the built in S2 sound module on the board. I am surprised by the more than decent quality of the samples of the S2 sound module.

I am right now not testing the hardware serious enough to be able to write anything useful about it. The only thing I can write right now, is that all works very well and even on my 800xl (with turbofreezer, the MIDIcar and IDE+ all connected together) it did not give a single problem. The software is pretty cool. It plays the Midifiles like on a spotify playlist haha. How cool is this? There are so many fabulous Midi files around (yes I admit there do exist also a lot of very bad MIDI files) which turns the Atari 8bit in a really cool jukebox for background music here in my hobby room.

But as said earlier I did not even buy this hardware for this purpose. I want to design new software for it in the future. I am thinking of some music-educational software or perhaps even a very light version of a real MIDI sequencer.

Anyway from the bottom of my heart: Pancio, you created something that I was looking for, for a very long time. I always loved my Atari ST for the MIDI port, and now it seems the little Atari has this addition too.

Let's hope for more good software. I will do more writing about it soon.

Thanks! Marius

AntwortZitat

Hi Marius, I'm glad to hear that 😎 !

Maybe you might want to contact Pancio and PeBe, they are already working on a MIDI sequencer for the A8 themselves and are still looking for support! Maybe it would be useful if the skills could be combined.

Best regards, André

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

I have been playing a few days with the Midi player software and the MidiCar and I must say I am still honestly impressed after these days of testing.

What a great device, and this replay software is really good. All the MIDI files I have tested so far do work perfectly. The sound is amazing and it is unbelievable how cool it is to hear your little Atari 8bit play this music. The VU-meters on the Channels are pretty cool too and the features of the software are much more than one would expect from little atari.

At this moment I have only been using this setup as a jukebox and with good quality MIDI files (make sure you have enough extended RAM in the Atari) the music is good enough to make it work as real jukebox for cool background (or foreground) music.

Although I will probably eventually come with a few feature requests, at this moment I have none.

Well one little thing. Since this software is meant to run for a while, I am wondering if the directory text and the logo text won't burn in my screen eventually. I have not a solution for that so far, but that is the only thing I was thinking of right now.

Very promising project. Thank you Pancio, Pebe and all people involved in this. I can imagine many people will be interested in this device. Perhaps create a little Ad? When people hear how amazing the MIDI files sound, I am sure many people feel the need to obtain at least one of these MidiCARs!

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

How far along is the development of the MIDIcar? Is it fully PBI compatible? Willing to share the PBI with other devices?

Sincerely

Mathy

PS same question for your other hardware devices that use the PBI.

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

hi Mathy,

Not sure whether I can answer this, but I have connected the MidiCar to my 800XL and there is also a Turbo Freezer 2011 and an IDE+ 2.0 connected to it. It all works pretty well together. I can read the MIDI files from my PBI harddrive and play them on the MIDICar. You can specify the hardware address of the interface using jumpers. I am not sure whether the MidiCar has a PBI ID# ... I think not, just like the Freezer also has no PBI ID.

AntwortZitat

Mathy schrieb: . Hello Pancio

How far along is the development of the MIDIcar? Is it fully PBI compatible? Willing to share the PBI with other devices?

Sincerely

Mathy

PS same question for your other hardware devices that use the PBI.

Hi Mathy,

MIDIcar PBI version is fully compatible with CART/ECI - there is no NEV_DEVICE ID used but MC might cooperate with other PBI device by pass-thru 50 pin connector edge. I'm thinking on idea how to modify existing PCB to be more flexible (e.g. for 600XL and cables conflict) - probably I decide to use vertically PCB - will see.

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

I would like to present new MCPlayer version 1.5.7 which has fixed reset MIDI devices procedure... Thanks to PeBe for that!

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

The newest MCP v1.5.8 can be use with Remote Control RC5 and can set Master Volume and Equalizer :-)

Letter '['and ']' - Master Volume or equalizer value Letter 'E' - equalizer type

Unfortunately, equalizer work fine only on S2 module, PeBe thinking to add it for other MIDI modules...

https://github.com/GSoftwareDevelopment/MIDICar-Player/releases

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Just a few news from MIDIcar's project:

Great news! Cool stuff 😎 !! I am insanely curious about the next steps!

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

AntwortZitat

. Hello guys

andymanone schrieb: I am insanely curious about the next steps!

Me too!

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Slowly.... Friends... :-)

Next step will be related to some new easy concept but I can't say more at this time. It's not revolution but some kind of evolution... so everyone will do something interesting himself ... :-)

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

Hey Pancio:

You once wrote this:

pancio schrieb: (...) According to features.... there is no possible to use MIDIcar in duplex mode because MC6850 has only one common send/receive register. I'm thinking about using DACIA chip (R65C52) but I'm not sure it's required by more than a few people 🙂 we will see. (...)

And is it by any chance that the MC6850 works in full duplex, because the transmit and receive registers are, however, two different registers with the fact that for the Atari (that is, the external device) one is visible only when you read (receive) and the other only when you write (transmit) Physically they opt one address in the Atari, but nevertheless two forms of access are, which hardware can take place to two different registers - as in POKEY and SIO. Theoretically you have to choose which is more important anyway, whether receiving data or transmitting it, because you won't receive and write to the same port at the same time anyway 🙂 Do you understand me the point? 🙂

AntwortZitat

Just a small update from MIDIcar project...

Our colleague KKRYS made very complex and looks good case for Atari 800XL computer:

IMG_20230721_121302936.jpgIMG_20230721_121307451.jpgIMG_20230721_121319114_HDR.jpgIMG_20230721_121543215.jpgIMG_20230721_121552910.jpgIMG_20230721_121607299.jpgIMG_20230721_121630767.jpgIMG_20230721_121636600.jpgIMG_20230721_121641018.jpgIMG_20230721_121646863.jpg

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

PeBe schrieb: Hey Pancio:

You once wrote this:

pancio schrieb: (...) According to features.... there is no possible to use MIDIcar in duplex mode because MC6850 has only one common send/receive register. I'm thinking about using DACIA chip (R65C52) but I'm not sure it's required by more than a few people :-) we will see. (...)

And is it by any chance that the MC6850 works in full duplex, because the transmit and receive registers are, however, two different registers with the fact that for the Atari (that is, the external device) one is visible only when you read (receive) and the other only when you write (transmit) Physically they opt one address in the Atari, but nevertheless two forms of access are, which hardware can take place to two different registers - as in POKEY and SIO. Theoretically you have to choose which is more important anyway, whether receiving data or transmitting it, because you won't receive and write to the same port at the same time anyway :) Do you understand me the point? :)

I catch your point of view... when I wrote this sentence.. i Didn't check MC6850 possibility. I can imagine that you may use something like this:

LDA #DATA
STA MC_TRANSFER_REG
LDA MC_TRANSFER_REG
STA RECEIVE_DATA

It's pretty like full duplex... of course some additional operation like check status in MC6850 is needed (e.g. buffer empty etc). I can imagine that MC_TRANSFER_REG has other value for read and write :-)

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

. Hello Pancio

Damn that looks good!

Are you gonna show this at the Fujiama?

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Hi Mathy,

It will be my pleasure to present these on Fujiama... I may bring a few pieces if anyone is interested as well :-)

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

The case for XL computers looks very good ! So, when can I buy Midicar with XL case ?!?

AntwortZitat

Will be available on PTODT's shop very soon... but it's very small series. As I said, I may bring one or two to Fujiama party to avoid delivery cost. Let's inform me if you prefer this approach.

Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

. Hallo Pancio

What would they cost?

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

The cost will be around 60 euro + MIDI module (depend from individual choice). Module is not necessary if you have external MIDI device like synthesizer.

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: It will be my pleasure to present these on Fujiama... I may bring a few pieces if anyone is interested as well 🙂

Unfortunately I cannot attend Fujijama.

Is the pbi version for XL computers with case already available?

AntwortZitat

Montezuma schrieb:

patjomki schrieb: Thanks for your reply. Can I order it somewhere?

I guess you can order it here: https://atarifan.pl/produkt/ptodt-midicar-do-atari-xl-nowosc/

Today I got my s2 card for my midicar I ordered a few days ago so I like to try it but unfortunately there was no documentation provided for midi car.

I downloaded PeBes midicar player bundled with MIDICar driver copied it and a .mid file to a DOS 2 disk but midicar player doesn't even start. There is an error message but I cannot read it because it vanishes too fast.

Can anyone help?

AntwortZitat

patjomki schrieb: I downloaded PeBes midicar player bundled with MIDICar driver copied it and a .mid file to a DOS 2 disk but midicar player doesn't even start. There is an error message but I cannot read it because it vanishes too fast

Hi patjomki 🙂

The fast disappearance is a bug in the MCP loader - I've already got it fixed in development 😉 I'll try to help, but I need a moment and some information: What version of MCP did you download? Under which DOS are you trying to run?

The rest will come with time 🙂

AntwortZitat

Hi,

I sent PM to you but general... MCPlayer working under SpartaDosX in X mode (to avoid address conflict with SDX). When you start under SDX, just run MCP like: X MCP158.COM or X MCP158.COM /AD580 - address shall be the same as set on jumpers. First method using autodetect for MC, second given address manually. As I know, is possible to use MC under DOSX in the same method but need to confirm with PeBe...

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

PeBe schrieb: What version of MCP did you download? Under which DOS are you trying to run?

DOS 2.5

I downloaded both mcp1.6a-no-bundled-driver.zip and mcp158a-bundled-MIDICar-driver.zip.

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Hi,

I sent PM to you but general... MCPlayer working under SpartaDosX in X mode (to avoid address conflict with SDX). When you start under SDX, just run MCP like: X MCP158.COM or X MCP158.COM /AD580 - address shall be the same as set on jumpers. First method using autodetect for MC, second given address manually. As I know, is possible to use MC under DOSX in the same method but need to confirm with PeBe...

Best Regards, pancio

Well SDX is a bummer as I don't like it very much but will try it.

Problem is, I have SDX installed with my U1MB, but when I enable it, it doesn't "see"my AVG Cart. I could plug in my SIO2SD back again but AVG Cart is so much better.

AntwortZitat

For DOS 2.5 or no command/parameter line.

If you have the 'no-bundle' version it is necessary to run the driver before loading MCP, i.e.:

L {return}
D:MIDICAR.DRV {return}
L {return}
D:MCP.EXE {return}

Of course, the drivers must be on the floppy MIDI drivers.zip.

In the 'bundle' version, the driver is already 'tacked on' to MCP, so all you need to do is run MCP.EXE. You can prepare such a 'bundle' version yourself. Just combine the corresponding driver and the 'no-bundle' version of MCP into one file.

XDOS

Personally, I recommend XDOS as it is much lighter and has some very useful features, which are:

  1. batch files
  2. the ability to modify memory
  3. passing parameters to the program.

The first useful feature is obvious - the ease of running MCP.

To prepare such a file under XDOS, get a simple editor Edit 2.5 (v1).xex or from the command line type:

D:>COP E; MCP.CMD {return} " {return} {quote - is required for XDOS batch files}
MIDICAR.DRV {return}
MCP.EXE {return}
{press CTRL+3 to exit}

To run such a file you only need to type its name (without extension), i.e.

D:>MCP {return}

. MCP.CMD.zip

The second useful feature is the built-in, very simple monitor.

Why am I mentioning it

MIDICar does not perform a reset on its own when the computer is switched on. This can result in it being detected incorrectly. To prevent this, under XDOS, issue two commands:

D:>=xxxx 03 {in place of xxxx, enter the address you have set on the jumpers in MIDICar}
D:>=82 xxxx {as above}

MCP.CMD.zip Of course, you can add these two lines to a batch file, just before loading the driver.

What do these lines do The first: "=xxxx 03" resets the MIDICar device. The second: "=82 xxxx" sets (for the MIDICAR.DRV driver) the device address, so that no autodetection is performed.

The above two lines, are the equivalent of the Spartan POKE and (nota bene) under SDX they should also be executed.

For DOS with a command line or the ability to pass parameters to programs (e.g. XDOS, MyDOS, RealDOS, SDX) you can run MCP with additional parameters, including

 /Axxxx 

This switch causes the above 'poke' to be executed by the MCP loader. In place of 'xxxx' enter the address set on MIDICar's jumpers

 /Dx:drivername.drv 

For MCP 'no-bundle' allows the driver to be loaded from the indicated location, with the indicated name. For 'bundle' the integrated driver will be overwritten (in memory) by the one indicated in the switch.

MCP.BAT.zip

SDX

Here there is such a little catch with the naming of the switch itself, i.e. '/Dx:' Namely, the letter 'D' is - in addition to indicating the switch - also the name of the device, i.e. DISK. As you know, under SDX the drive/drive letters can be described in different ways, i.e.

D1: = A: = DA: B: = D2: = DB: DJ: = D10: = J: etc.

As can be seen, with the short drive designations A: B: ... there will be a problem with the '/Dx:' switch. You can't write '/A:driver' Therefore, you have to use a 'long' notation wanting to refer to another drive, e.g.

D:>X MCP.EXE /D5:>MCP>MIDICAR.DRV /AD580
D:>X MCP.EXE /DA:MIDIBOX.DRV
D:>X MCP.EXE /DH:MIDIMATE.DRV D1:

'X' is used ONLY under SDX!.

In the last example, the "D1:" at the end is not a switch, but a message to the MCP that, when started, it is to read a directory from the indicated drive, i.e. "D1:" You can indicate the track or also the name of the MID file to be read. Remember to ALWAYS specify the full path, i.e.

DE:>GAMES>ATARI>
DE:>GAMES>ABUSE>01INTRO.MID
DA:APIDYA.MID

Unfortunately, the MCP loader does not search the PATH environment variable - this is to maintain compatibility with DOS other than Sparta DOS (X) Hence, it may not be possible or very difficult to achieve certain actions, such as associating files with the MCP program. Therefore, MCP has an integrated, very convenient file selector 🙂

I hope that I have not made a glaring mistake anywhere and that, the tips described here will serve.

PeBe

Anhänge:
AntwortZitat

I have to admit that I thought MidiCar was more plug&play.

Two things prevent me to use it at the moment:

1) lack of 5V on pin47 and 48 of the pbi bus on an 800XL (not so important as I also have an 600XL with u1mb although I would like to use it on my main machine (800XL)) 2) need to "install" SDX or XDOS on my AVG Cart. That is the biggest disadvantage as I don't like any DOS environments (could have switched to a PC 30 years ago or so if it weren't so repulsive 😉 ).

Well think I have some work to do this weekend (installing SDX that is).

AntwortZitat

If you want it, it's easy 😉

XDOS is a pretty typical environment for ATARI (in my opinion) while SDX is the best environment for ATARI (in my opinion).

However. You can always prepare the environment to be optimal. mcp.atr

The above attachment, is an image of a floppy disk. It contains: - XDOS - Drivers - MIDICar Player (dev version!) - Batch files for XDOS and SDX - ED Editor (without command line parser)

Using ED: - Run ED.EXE - CTRL+L Load file, after specifying its name - Edit 😉 - CTRL+S Save file - ESC exit

🙂

Bear in mind that MIDICar is only in its third revision 😉 It's a relatively simple MIDI interface for the small Atari, yet quite advanced. I for one think that in terms of MIDI it's the best that could have been created 🙂

Let's remember that NEW requires CHANGE. 🙂

Anhänge:
AntwortZitat

PeBe schrieb: Let's remember that NEW requires CHANGE. 🙂

Good news. On my 600XL MidiCar gets detected (bad news: on my 800XL not, so the hardware modification has to be done).

Unfortunately whatever I try to do, MidiCar player doesn't load any .mid file. They are recognized but when I press return instead of loading the file my computer immediately freezes. There isn't even the typical Atari loading noise.

Attract mode starts after a few minutes though but nothing else is possible. No Help key, no other keyboard input.

Have 1088KB Rambo configured in U1MB and Basic Off.

AntwortZitat

Hi,

If after load MIDI file MCP is frozen - means you probably use wrong address - try to use $D180 instead $D580 - I'm not sure which one is set in your device.

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Hi,

If after load MIDI file MCP is frozen - means you probably use wrong address - try to use $D180 instead $D580 - I'm not sure which one is set in your device.

Best Regards, pancio

Not it's not that it is frozen after loading, it just doesn't load. Deleted mcp.exe from the disk you provided and copied player 1.58a-bundled-MidiCar-driver onto the disk (renamed it to mcp.exe before) and this version plays Midi files like expected. 😀

AntwortZitat

Great!

I hope, a few challenges are not made your opinion bad :-) You should to know, work with many MIDI files needs more than easy DOS - maybe you will change mind after while, regarding to SDX...

Best Regards, pancio

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

The hardware is not as bad as you think, the problem lies in its software, which although good, contains bugs 😛

Try this image mcp.atr.

I won't hide the fact that there's a problem that, I can't deal with, but... That's rather not for this thread.

In general, it would be useful, from a few posts back, to set up a new thread, as this one is about hardware, and we're talking about software!

EDIT:

All issues related to the MIDICar Player are very welcome under this thread 🙂 https://abbuc.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2121

Anhänge:
AntwortZitat

I can confirm that this version now runs fine with my Midi Car. 😎

PeBe also started a new thread just for the software:

https://abbuc.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2121&p=17329#p17329

Regarding user experience. Well, atm it is a little rough around the edges. Don't get me wrong, I am glad we have this device and hopefully it will be supported from a lot of developers in the future and of course it doesn't mean that it is a bad device. Just the opposite.

The biggest problem now is lack of documentation, though. There should be a repository where there is a user's and a programmer's manual (couldn't find one) and the above disk you provided.

And in the user's manual it should clearly be stated that SDX (or XDOS) is necessary at the moment and that for the XL version a hardware modification on the 800XL had to be done.

Apart from that I wish the pcb would be a little bit smaller. 🙄

AntwortZitat

Well...

I can't promise.. but in my mind cartridge version is possible. It's means smaller PCB. In fact that MC has some hardware limitation like no RESET pin, no interrupt.. I'm thinking to replace MC6850 to other IC. We will see.

Interesting facts from development: - Actually MC6850 has interrupt pin called /IRQ but I had no one positive result to use it - probably it's working only if you are carry about additional signals than RX/TX like /CTS, /DCD which are not used by MC. - MC has RESET as well but... only software reset called Master Reset... - the same MC6850 chip is using in Atari ST :-)

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

AntwortZitat

patjomki schrieb: I have to admit that I thought MidiCar was more plug&play.

Two things prevent me to use it at the moment:

I have to add a third and fourth one unfortunately.

When using MidiCar with an 600XL there isn't enough space left for a FujiNet device because the pbi bus is nearer to the sio port than on an 800XL.

So I hoped to use it with my 600XL while waiting for my 800XL to return from adding 5V support on pbi but that would mean to lose FujiNet.

With my unmodified 800XL it also doesn't work (even if there were 5V on pbi) because the pbi cable of AVG Cart is too short for using it with MidiCar which means that I cannot use AVG Cart as a memory expansion. 😪

AntwortZitat

pancio schrieb: Well...

I can't promise.. but in my mind cartridge version is possible. It's means smaller PCB.

I'm against a cartridge version because the cartridge slot is already occupied by AVG Cart. 😂

AntwortZitat

patjomki schrieb: When using MidiCar with an 600XL there isn't enough space left for a FujiNet device because the pbi bus is nearer to the sio port than on an 800XL.

So I hoped to use it with my 600XL while waiting for my 800XL to return from adding 5V support on pbi but that would mean to lose FujiNet.

Plug a SIO cable in both the XL and the FujiNet to solve this problem.

AntwortZitat

DjayBee schrieb: Plug a SIO cable in both the XL and the FujiNet to solve this problem.

Doesn't work as SIO cables have sockets on both ends and FujiNet has a socket, too, so they don't fit.

AntwortZitat

. Hello patjomki

Turn the FujiNet around! (Or buy the FujiNet Prof by Lotharek)

Sincerely

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

AntwortZitat

Mathy schrieb: Turn the FujiNet around! (Or buy the FujiNet Prof by Lotharek

And where to put the SIO cable from AVG Cart? :?

Is FujiNet Prof already available?

Apart from that I think I just have to wait until my modified 800XL is back to use MidiCar and FujiNet together. In the meantime I just put MidiCar back into its box.

AntwortZitat

. Hello patjomki

patjomki schrieb: And where to put the SIO cable from AVG Cart? :?

That could be a problem. Mozzwald once designed a gender changer. The Dual Receptacle version on https://mozzwald.com/product/sio-pass-through-breakout-board-v2-2/. (Make sure you select the "Dual Receptacle" instead of the "Plug & Receptacle". The site will tell you they are "out of stock", but also that they are "made to order". And he lives on the wrong side of the Atlantic, so shipping ... )

Das könnte ein Problem sein. Mozzwald hat mal ein Invertieradapter. Die Dual Receptacle Version auf https://mozzwald.com/product/sio-pass-through-breakout-board-v2-2/. (Aber wähle die "Dual Receptacle" (doppelte Buchse) und nicht das "Plug & Receptacle"(Stecker und Buchse). Die Seite wird dir sagen das das Teil "out of stock" (nicht auf Lager) ist, aber auch das dieses Teil auf Anfrage hergestellt wird. Er lebt aber auf der falschen Seite des Atlantiks, Versand wird wohl ... )

patjomki schrieb: Is FujiNet Prof already available?

Lotharek's site says: "https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=374"

Lothareks Seite sagt: "https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=374" (FujiNet Prof Vorbestellung (Erhältlich ab den 30. september dieses Jahres))

Sincerely

Tschüß

Mathy

Schreibe nicht der Absicht zu, was man mit Dummheit oder Ignoranz erklären kann.

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DjayBee schrieb: Das ist natürlich ein berechtigter Einwand. 😉

Falls du mal etwas bei Lotharek bestellst, leg das hier mit in den Warenkorb, dann ist es kein Problem mehr: https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=158

So ein Ding habe ich tatsächlich noch hier im Schrank herumliegen. Danke für die Erinnerung, dass es damit geht.

Zwei Dinge halten mich allerdings davon ab.

1.) Die damit verbundene Unordnung auf dem Schreibtisch 2.) Dass die SIO-Ports von unten offen zugänglich sind. Liegt mal versehentlich was Metallisches drunter -> Kurzschlussgefahr.

Ich denke, ich werde mich einfach gedulden, bis mein 800XL wieder zurück ist. Ist am Ende die bequemste Lösung.

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patjomki schrieb: 2.) Dass die SIO-Ports von unten offen zugänglich sind. Liegt mal versehentlich was Metallisches drunter -> Kurzschlussgefahr.

dl7ukk hat sich aus einem weißen Sauregurkeneimer ein Stück rausgeschnitten und zwischen die Platine und die Gummifüße geschraubt.

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DjayBee schrieb: dl7ukk hat sich aus einem weißen Sauregurkeneimer ein Stück rausgeschnitten und zwischen die Platine und die Gummifüße geschraubt.

Danke für den Tipp (ernst gemeint!).

Aber natürlich musste ich bei dieser Lösung auch etwas Schmunzeln. 🙂

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Hi MIDI freaks!

I would like to introduce new version of MIDIcar device called MIDIcarSDX. It's combine MIDIcar, MaxFlash128+ and SDX. Due to this combination, MDIcar is ready to work immediately after switching on, and the program necessary for MIDI playback is available on the CAR device paired with SDX. Moreover, is possible to use other than SDX DOS if we re-flashing EEPROM on board. Many thanks to:

gienekp -author of MaxFlash128kB+ cartridge and GAL program. kkrys - author of very usefully reset modification for MaxFlash128kB+, this feature can enable/disable SDX whenever you want. PeBe - author of the best MIDIplayer program!

MIDIcarSDX.png

PCB is under production, if prototype will be work I'll add full documentation to Public Domain project web page!

Best Regards,

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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Hi,

Today PeBe solved problem with MCP which is installed directly on SDX CAR flash memory. From today using MC is so easy! Just plug MC to CART/ECI, turn your ATARI and enjoy music! Thank you PeBe!

MIDIcarSDX.jpeg

Now PeBe is working with some very usefully features on his player. I will say more soon...

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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When MIDIcar was under development I didn't realize that someone want to have audio output from MIDI on TV/Monitor. Though, best audio should be only on RCA but of course it's possible to have "poor" Audio on DIN-5 Monitor output as well. You need two resistors 43k-47k, 10cm thin wire(like kynar) and 5 minutes with iron tool...

MIDIcarCARTECI-Audio-mod.png

The same way if you want to have audio using MIDIcarPBI...

BR, pancio

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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Hi,

I would like to update anyone interested in MIDIcar development... I decided to make new version which will be universal for XL and XE series (600XL include). Additionally, universal mezzanine board for other projects was made (called PBIvo for PBI, and XEvo or XAvo :-) for CART/ECI - in development now). The main goal was achieve smaller size and possibility to use with other equipment connected on the back of Atari. On the picture you will see the old PCB for XL (on the left) and the newest one or right. I hope it's good idea and new approach will be accepted :-)

MCVpcb.jpg.jpeg

MCVfront.jpg.jpeg

MCVback.jpg.jpeg

Probably a few pieces will be available as ready to use devices for buyers but... I would like to say that anyone can download the schematic, PCB design (Gerber files) for each version presented and make it themselves, without any restrictions (except for commercial sale). If you are willing to cooperate, do not hesitate and contact me :-)

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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pancio schrieb: I would like to say that anyone can download the schematic, PCB design (Gerber files) for each version presented and make it themselves, without any restrictions (except for commercial sale). If you are willing to cooperate, do not hesitate and contact me 🙂

I can´t find the files, but would love to have them and let PCBGogo produce some boards. I like the current setup, but it eats a bit too much space... 😉

MIDICAR_Boot.mp4

Anhänge:

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Thank you, got it. 🙂

Was looking there already but didn´t realize, that you updated the list. Still too early, need more coffee. 🙂

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Mit dem Gehäuse passt aber die PBI Version MidiCar nicht am Atari 800 XL

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Hi,

There is adopted for Atari 800XL without steel plate above and bottom PBI edge. You are second person I know that still have this plates. We modified the case to fill Atari 800XL and 600XL with these plates and made only one piece. If you want to have it I may print it for you.

MCpbi1.jpeg

MCpbi2.jpeg

The longer version is more stable but of course I understand that someone want to have original Atari with full steel cover inside..

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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Nun wenn man das Gehäuse hinter dem Atari heranführt um es ein zu stecken, stellt man recht schnell fest, dass es immer noch nicht so richtig in den PBI Bus hineinrutscht, da es vorher erst angehoben werden muss.

Dann passt es. Doch das kann dazu führen, das die Kontaktfederleisten des Edge Connectors keinen richtigen Kontakt zum PBI Bus hat. Es muss absolut Waage im PBI Bus stecken damit alle Signale durch kommen.

Ich hatte schon des Öfteren von Problemen gehört obwohl MidiCar im PBI Bus richtig drin steckte, das die Meldung kam, kann MidiCar nicht finden weil es nicht gerade im PBI Bus steckte und keinen richtigen Kontakt bekam.

Das hängt aber auch von der Qualität des Edge Connectors ab. Manche Platinen sind aber auch etwas dünn, so das die Kontakte nicht alle Federn des Edge Connectors berühren wenn es nicht gerade im Slot steckt.

Dann hat man kontakt Probleme. Beim MidiCar könnte es auch nützlich sein wer eine Synth Karte nutzt einen Reset an der Synth Karte durch zu führen, wenn Midiklänge plötzlich merkwürdig klingen. So erspart man sich das herausziehen des MidiCars aus dem Computer.

Denn ein Neustart des Computers löst dieses Problem nicht. Auch das kann dazu führen, das die Meldung kommen kann, kann MidiCar nicht finden, da es ja abgestürzt ist. Man müsste es zurücksetzen können.

Ich lese auch immer von easy to use MIDI player/recorder. Ich konnte bei MPC noch keinen Rekord Funktion finden. Scheint nur ein Player zu sein.

Denn wenn es auch noch eine Rekord Funktion gäben würde, dann könnte man den Pokey wie bei MidiJoy mit einbeziehen oder sogar den PokeyMax.

Denn bei MidiJoy2 ist es nicht mehr möglich aufgenommene Midi Sounds mit einem externen Player aus dem Speicher des Ataris abzuspielen.

Man kann den Midi Song zwar im Speicher des Ataris als binäre Datei abspeichern aber nicht einladen und mit einem externen Player abspielen.

Man müsste die Binäre Datei von MidiJoy in Midi Dateien umwandeln können. Aber das denke ich ist technisch unmöglich.

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Just quick comment (will be explained later - I'm going to work)...

MC might be discovered "by accident" - sometime it works, sometime not. MC6850 hasn't special register or ID, so program trying to find something connected on $D1 or $D5 page. Unfortunately not always work properly. It not means that MC is not present. Just try to use give MC's address manually by using /AXXXX key instead automatic. XXXX - address, example: MCP.COM /AD580

Rest question I'll update later.

BR

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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pancio schrieb: Just quick comment (will be explained later - I'm going to work)...

MC might be discovered "by accident" - sometime it works, sometime not. MC6850 hasn't special register or ID, so program trying to find something connected on $D1 or $D5 page. Unfortunately not always work properly. It not means that MC is not present. Just try to use give MC's address manually by using /AXXXX key instead automatic. XXXX - address, example: MCP.COM /AD580

Rest question I'll update later.

BR

Thanks! I was just thinking, there is something wrong with my setup, as I sometimes have that issue. But normally not more than two reboots (mostly just one) are needed.

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There is answer to rest question from Pmetzen's post: https://abbuc.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20555#p20555

Dann hat man kontakt Probleme. Beim MidiCar könnte es auch nützlich sein wer eine Synth Karte nutzt einen Reset an der Synth Karte durch zu führen, wenn Midiklänge plötzlich merkwürdig klingen. So erspart man sich das herausziehen des MidiCars aus dem Computer.

It depends on MIDI synthesizer and MIDI file. Each synthesizer should has RESET sequence but not anyone has the same. Moreover, MIDI files are wrote with or without RESET procedure. That's the reason why sometime you may hearing not well sounds - it might be happened when you pause/stop play the music. Never happened when you play music one by one from beginning to end.

Ich lese auch immer von easy to use MIDI player/recorder. Ich konnte bei MPC noch keinen Rekord Funktion finden. Scheint nur ein Player zu sein.

You're right. At the moment we do not have a well-functioning MIDI sequencer dedicated to MIDIcar. I have successfully performed some tests, such as capturing data from my AKAI MPK device, but this is more of a proof of concept than actual, usable software. This means that MIDIcar can work as a MIDI sequencer, but we don't have the appropriate software yet. I hope someone does this soon. I will be happy to provide relevant information if anyone wants it.

Denn wenn es auch noch eine Rekord Funktion gäben würde, dann könnte man den Pokey wie bei MidiJoy mit einbeziehen oder sogar den PokeyMax.

I can't promise.. but I know that PeBe is working on that :-)

Denn bei MidiJoy2 ist es nicht mehr möglich aufgenommene Midi Sounds mit einem externen Player aus dem Speicher des Ataris abzuspielen.

Man kann den Midi Song zwar im Speicher des Ataris als binäre Datei abspeichern aber nicht einladen und mit einem externen Player abspielen.

Man müsste die Binäre Datei von MidiJoy in Midi Dateien umwandeln können. Aber das denke ich ist technisch unmöglich.

I don't know how the MidiJoy2 working and how represents data in memory but I assume, it's not general midi file on the output..?

If any other question, I'll be happy to answer :-)

BR,

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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If I had filed a 1090, I'd be the second interested

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patjomki schrieb: Can anyone help?

Yes. I´m preparing two disks which I will upload to my ABBUC-tnfs tomorrow. Still have to sort out some defective/not well working MIDI Files. Stay tuned.

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Hi,

I've opened a few projects on my desk but I'm slowly catching up. Yesterday evening I finished MIDIcar Vertical which is successor for older version. I'm using XL mezzanine as base for MCV. Enclosure will be made soon. Of course - all details, schematics, PCBs design and gerbers you may find on my page.

Next step: MCfor1090 :-)

BR,

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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Hallo Atari Gemeinde! Weiß jemand, wann man das Teil kaufen kann ❓ Auf der Internetseite steht alles auf " ausverkauft" Grüße Frank

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Franky schrieb: Hallo Atari Gemeinde! Weiß jemand, wann man das Teil kaufen kann ❓ Auf der Internetseite steht alles auf " ausverkauft" Grüße Frank

Hi Franky,

soweit ich Pancio aus diversen Projekten (auch aus der Vergangenheit) kenne, baut er am Anfang immer mal ein paar "Prototypen", die man, wenn man ihn lieb bittet 😉, abkaufen kann. Aber eine große Serie, die er selber produziert und verkauft, macht er eher nicht. Dafür stellt er alle Projektdaten unter "Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0." frei zur Verfügung. Müsstest dir also einen PCB-Hersteller suchen, der dir das ggf. auch für dich (in der Basis wenigstens) bestückt. Die Dateien findest du auf https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?p=72#p72 unten.

Gtx., andY

Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / Brandnew: Live 24/7 Stream - Industrial - Chiptune/Covers - Vocal Dream - EDM - Indie - own tracks

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Vielen Dank für die Info,André! Habe im mal geschrieben. Gruß Franky 🙄

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MIDIcar for 1090 interface

Long-short story:

You might remember that about three years ago, @PeBe and I worked on MIDIcar, a MIDI interface for the Atari XL with an ECI port. @PeBe made the MIDIcar Player that, in my opinion, is better than those for PCs. A year later, a version for XL computers was created, followed by a MIDIcar version for Atari 1090 users, which I wasn't able to test because my 1090 is still not equipped with componenst. I sent prototypes to several people: @ndary, @dely and @krap, and I quickly realized something was wrong. Nir even claimed the device worked, but I couldn't confirm it with others – so it was a legend!

@dely pestered me for almost two years to do something about it, and finally, one of the best Atari electronics engineers, @pasiu, took a look at the schematic and immediately knew what was going on.

Getting the interface working required the MC6851 to transmit a bus busy signal to /DBUFSEL in its address space, which I'd forgotten about at the time. Fixing this is quite simple: just a diode between the decoder and /DBUFSEL – so if you have my old MIDIcar 1090, it can be easily "repaired." Additionally, it turned out that the Wavetable module might not have worked because it required a pull-up of the RESET signal.

After testing with the manually applied fixes made by @dely, it turned out that the MIDIcar 1090 works without any problems! @dely's tests motivated me to make some corrections and create a new PCB – you can find it on my website.

Thank you guys for the tests!

I've already uploaded the schematic, design, and gerbers to my website...

Facebook thread: https://www.facebook.com/groups/savonara/permalink/1323062342349502/

Have fun!

MIDIcar1090-1R1-schematic.pngMIDIcar1090-1R1-front.pngMIDIcar-1090v1R1-back.png

Anhänge:

pancio https://systemembedded.eu PTODT / A.B.B.U.C. Member

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